Was attendance taken in class yesterday morning? Did any teacher or administrator attempt to tell the students that they are not allowed to leave school in the middle of the day? I would certainly hope that this happened. However if not, I would like to know why teachers and administrators colluded in this attempt to use students to influence the community.
As a former employee (7 years) of Oyster River High School, and somebody who still has close ties to the Oyster River Community, a few things have jumped out at me over the past couple months as this mess has proceeded.
It is amazing how quickly these adults who cite the non-public RSA's would move to crush a students a) right to free speech, and b) right to assemble.
I can only hope for those students who I still communicate with and care about, that the board and the vocal minority in the community, which has stirred this issue up will follow all laws and the CONSTITUTION, rather than simply citing the laws which support your own viewpoints.
And those who would suggest that the teachers had anything to do with this are showing once again that they have no knowledge of what is going on at this school. These are active, engaged, intelligent students who want a voice in their community.
In a way, I guess you could say the teachers had something to do with that. They have done such a phenomenal job of educating YOUR children, that the students know, and exercise their rights as Americans.
This should make the communities of Lee, Durham and Madbury proud, not be yet another source of contention and false allegations.
Brett, I have a few questions. How old are your children who attend the school? How easy do you think it would be to stop 500 students who have a constitutional right to free speech and assembly from exercising those rights? Do you see no educational value in this civic exercise?
You are trivializing the efforts and emotions of these young men and women. It is clear that you feel people have a right to an opinion, as long as it is your opinion. That's a real shame.
Fortunately, thanks to the exceptional staff and faculty at Oyster River and the various other schools in SAU 5, these students are intelligent, civic minded people who know their rights and want to have a voice in their community.
They have tried to have a voice and the board and the vocal minority in the community have attempted to squash that voice or trivialize it, so they were forced to take a more drastic measure. Had the teachers or administrators tried to stop them they would have been violating their constitutional rights.
One last question. Had these students been rallying AGAINST the teachers on behalf of the community, would you be suggesting that the board had influenced them and insisting that they be punished?
I posted this in the comments of the "Crossed the Line" post [1] but feel it's appropriate here as well. Before I quote myself, I do want to say I don't interpret this as adults trying to crush student's rights to free speech and assembly, just parents concerned for the protection of children. And while the demonstration Thursday by students was peaceful and an exemplary example of organized protest, the mob comprised of students and adults that stormed the ABC meeting Wednesday the 13th was a disrespectful, uncivil group agitated to a state of frenzy. [2]
In my opinion, if the students are left to represent themselves, the result is commendable display of democratic protest in action. Once the adults stepped in, it does appear the students were manipulated and duped into acting out in a manner that was counter productive and disrespectful.
When a student steps on the bus or walks through the front doors of a school, the school has taken on responsibility for their safety. I have first hand experience with this and can confidently say our schools take the safety and well being of the students *very* seriously.
Now if a student leaves campus without permission, they are committing truancy and the school needs to inform the student's parents using a truancy slip (not sure on the terminology - I've never received one). It's not punishment, it's fulfillment of the school's obligation as caretaker of that student. The schools liability, should a student who is truant be hurt off campus, is extreme and the truancy procedure helps protect the school from a lawsuit.
I agree, the ORHS can't practically punish 500 students for walking out but they are obligated to send truancy slips home for every student that left the building without permission. It would be irresponsible to the parents of those students not to. There were announcements Thursday morning reminding the students of "severe academic repercussions" should any student take things too far. I think the high school administration responded to a tough situation as best they could. I am confident enough in our administration to know there were employees of the high school present at that rally to ensure the safety of the students.
For the love of all things good and holy, why do so many people --stated faculty current or former -- believe that they and ONLY they have had anything to do with the outcomes of our children?
Nannystate. Only government and it's agencies can possibly affect good within the community. It's outright BS. While I am NOT a liberal I agree with Hilary, it takes a villiage...not just the occupants of a school building.
Teachers are definate part of a childs developement but this attitude they that and ONLY they can account for the responsiblity of success, but deny the responsibility of the faults [ie bad parents cause this that or the other thing] is just so ARROGANT.
Terrill, I don't know you and I am not specifically upset with you. I can only assume by your comments that you were a decidated teacher and an involved mentor currently. I don't agree with a bunch of what you said but I am attempting to be more direct as has been pointed out to me recently.
Obviously the students had the 'right' to walk out. What is being addressed is what 'accountability' will be assessed? It is not unreasonable to ask or expect.
As a parent of a preschooler, I witnessed the ending of this while dropping my child off at the preschool housed in the high school building. There was a distinct difference in the attitudes of the students from what I personally witnessed Wed?
Or do you think it's ok for a high school student to shout 'The C Word' at a specific school board member? I sure don't.
I find it highly improbable that a student shouted that word at anyone. I would believe that perhaps it was said out loud and you might have overheard and while that is deplorable, it is not the same as shouting it at somebody. I wasn't there, I may be wrong, but I feel that if something like that happened this wouldn't be the first of me hearing it 2 days later. Furthermore, the meeting was a far more volatile and emotional venue than the walk out. Everyone was prepared physically and emotionally for the walk out. Also, from what I understand and observed from watching the taped portion of the meeting, there was a serious level of disrespect from the school board to the public, especially the members of the student body
Would you elaborate on the serious disrespect you observed demonstrated by the school board during April 13th meeting? I don't agree and would like to understand what you mean.
I appreciate how civil the Thursday action was, there were a dozen & half or so preschoolers standing outside and I just can't imagine how I would have felt if Wed's comments were the same.
Seth is correct, it was stated and corrected by an adult present. I don't know if that was a faculty member or a parent. But standing beside me was our State Representative, Jenna Roberts, two year old daughter. That same representative was explaining the layers of law that is involved in the situation to a group of students.
Collin, I wasn't there to observe the "serious level of disrespect from the school board to... members of the student body". However, in my personal view the SB was very respectful and tolerant by allowing all of those students to come in and take up SB time for nearly an hour and a half. The fact is that the SB is elected by the voters, not by the students. Therefore, I question whether the SB should have granted the students this time. I'm not saying that the students don't have a right to free speech. I am saying that since they aren't voters within ORCSD, they don't have a "right" to speak at an ORCSD SB meeting; if they attend it should be as guests or observers. If their concerns are legitimate and valid (as they may be) then the appropriate process is for the students to convince their parents/guardians (who *are* voters within the district) to come and speak on their behalf. We wouldn't allow 3rd graders to come speak to the board. Neither would we allow voters of Dover, Newmarket or Portsmouth. This may seem unfair to current ORHS students, but it is the law of the land - until you are 18 you don't have a voice of your own.
I'd like to share this speech by a student leader prior to Thursday's peaceful demonstration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM_EDwQ42tc
This is an example of how a protest should be done in our democracy and I'm *extremely* impressed with the foresight and maturity of our students shown here.
While I disagree with the speaker's description that students at Wednesday's demonstration were "completely civil" and "completely respectable", I do respect his right to express his opinion. Should the students choose to assemble again on the 27th, I sincerely hope this is how they will rally together to engage in productive, peaceful, and respectful expression of their views.
I have not commented on the decision of the board not to hire a principal because I am not familiar with the details. However, I have a very hard time with the sentiment that the students have no voice. I feel that the job of the school board is to protect the rights of the students within the school because most of them can't vote. The students are the most directly affected by these decisions, the board should value their opinion equally to those of the teachers, administrators and taxpayers.
The school board should work the the staff and administration to come up with the best decision (on any matter, not just principal) in the best interests of the students.
Students should ABSOLUTELY have a voice. If not, why is there a student representative on the school board, and why are there students on various committees for the school? (Hopefully nobody uses that comment to eliminate the students from these positions.)
I am not saying the board, or any member of the staff should simply bend to the will of students, but they should definitely listen and respect the students enough to hear them out and give their thoughts consideration.
I hope the people making these comments are not parents. I thought we had come further as a society than to still believe that "children are to be seen and not heard."
I have tried to be respectful of differing view points, but that is a shameful sentiment. It flies in the face of democracy and basic integrity.
What is the point of a school board, a teacher, a school administrator? To do his or her best to protect and educate our youth.
What lesson does this, "Sit down and shut up!" mentality teach our children? That they should not even bother trying to advocate for themselves. But then, that seems to be what some of these comments are attempting to do.
Just a quick response to Chris Ann's comments referring to me this morning. I don't believe that you would find many (if any) teachers who claim sole responsibility for a child's successes or failures. You are absolutely right that it takes a combined effort of parents and teachers.
That said, parents and teachers should all have been proud of these students pride, knowledge and civic awareness. Parents certainly deserve much of the credit for the actions of these students. I don't think most of the students would have participated if they feared issues with their parents.
I think Brian made a good point that the school should address the fact that students left the grounds. I think it would be logistically difficult to expect them to send truancy slips individually to each of the 500 students. Maybe a letter to all parents, sort of a truancy form letter.
But yes, you are absoultely right that parents, and educators deserve some credit for the intelligence and civic mindedness of these students. Above all though, it is the students themselves who made the educated decision to try and make their voices heard. For their sakes, hopefully the voice was heard.
Was attendance taken in class yesterday morning? Did any teacher or administrator attempt to tell the students that they are not allowed to leave school in the middle of the day?
ReplyDeleteI would certainly hope that this happened.
However if not, I would like to know why teachers and administrators colluded in this attempt to use students to influence the community.
As a former employee (7 years) of Oyster River High School, and somebody who still has close ties to the Oyster River Community, a few things have jumped out at me over the past couple months as this mess has proceeded.
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing how quickly these adults who cite the non-public RSA's would move to crush a students a) right to free speech, and b) right to assemble.
I can only hope for those students who I still communicate with and care about, that the board and the vocal minority in the community, which has stirred this issue up will follow all laws and the CONSTITUTION, rather than simply citing the laws which support your own viewpoints.
And those who would suggest that the teachers had anything to do with this are showing once again that they have no knowledge of what is going on at this school. These are active, engaged, intelligent students who want a voice in their community.
In a way, I guess you could say the teachers had something to do with that. They have done such a phenomenal job of educating YOUR children, that the students know, and exercise their rights as Americans.
This should make the communities of Lee, Durham and Madbury proud, not be yet another source of contention and false allegations.
Brett, I have a few questions. How old are your children who attend the school? How easy do you think it would be to stop 500 students who have a constitutional right to free speech and assembly from exercising those rights? Do you see no educational value in this civic exercise?
ReplyDeleteYou are trivializing the efforts and emotions of these young men and women. It is clear that you feel people have a right to an opinion, as long as it is your opinion. That's a real shame.
Fortunately, thanks to the exceptional staff and faculty at Oyster River and the various other schools in SAU 5, these students are intelligent, civic minded people who know their rights and want to have a voice in their community.
They have tried to have a voice and the board and the vocal minority in the community have attempted to squash that voice or trivialize it, so they were forced to take a more drastic measure. Had the teachers or administrators tried to stop them they would have been violating their constitutional rights.
One last question. Had these students been rallying AGAINST the teachers on behalf of the community, would you be suggesting that the board had influenced them and insisting that they be punished?
Terrill and Brett --
ReplyDeleteI posted this in the comments of the "Crossed the Line" post [1] but feel it's appropriate here as well. Before I quote myself, I do want to say I don't interpret this as adults trying to crush student's rights to free speech and assembly, just parents concerned for the protection of children. And while the demonstration Thursday by students was peaceful and an exemplary example of organized protest, the mob comprised of students and adults that stormed the ABC meeting Wednesday the 13th was a disrespectful, uncivil group agitated to a state of frenzy. [2]
In my opinion, if the students are left to represent themselves, the result is commendable display of democratic protest in action. Once the adults stepped in, it does appear the students were manipulated and duped into acting out in a manner that was counter productive and disrespectful.
[1]http://oysterrivercommunity.blogspot.com/2011/04/crossed-line.html
[2] http://www.orcsd.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=299&Itemid=21
#### Quoted Content ####
When a student steps on the bus or walks through the front doors of a school, the school has taken on responsibility for their safety. I have first hand experience with this and can confidently say our schools take the safety and well being of the students *very* seriously.
Now if a student leaves campus without permission, they are committing truancy and the school needs to inform the student's parents using a truancy slip (not sure on the terminology - I've never received one). It's not punishment, it's fulfillment of the school's obligation as caretaker of that student. The schools liability, should a student who is truant be hurt off campus, is extreme and the truancy procedure helps protect the school from a lawsuit.
I agree, the ORHS can't practically punish 500 students for walking out but they are obligated to send truancy slips home for every student that left the building without permission. It would be irresponsible to the parents of those students not to. There were announcements Thursday morning reminding the students of "severe academic repercussions" should any student take things too far. I think the high school administration responded to a tough situation as best they could. I am confident enough in our administration to know there were employees of the high school present at that rally to ensure the safety of the students.
For the love of all things good and holy, why do so many people --stated faculty current or former -- believe that they and ONLY they have had anything to do with the outcomes of our children?
ReplyDeleteNannystate. Only government and it's agencies can possibly affect good within the community. It's outright BS. While I am NOT a liberal I agree with Hilary, it takes a villiage...not just the occupants of a school building.
Teachers are definate part of a childs developement but this attitude they that and ONLY they can account for the responsiblity of success, but deny the responsibility of the faults [ie bad parents cause this that or the other thing] is just so ARROGANT.
Terrill, I don't know you and I am not specifically upset with you. I can only assume by your comments that you were a decidated teacher and an involved mentor currently. I don't agree with a bunch of what you said but I am attempting to be more direct as has been pointed out to me recently.
Obviously the students had the 'right' to walk out. What is being addressed is what 'accountability' will be assessed? It is not unreasonable to ask or expect.
As a parent of a preschooler, I witnessed the ending of this while dropping my child off at the preschool housed in the high school building. There was a distinct difference in the attitudes of the students from what I personally witnessed Wed?
Or do you think it's ok for a high school student to shout 'The C Word' at a specific school board member? I sure don't.
ChrisAnn,
ReplyDeleteI find it highly improbable that a student shouted that word at anyone. I would believe that perhaps it was said out loud and you might have overheard and while that is deplorable, it is not the same as shouting it at somebody. I wasn't there, I may be wrong, but I feel that if something like that happened this wouldn't be the first of me hearing it 2 days later. Furthermore, the meeting was a far more volatile and emotional venue than the walk out. Everyone was prepared physically and emotionally for the walk out. Also, from what I understand and observed from watching the taped portion of the meeting, there was a serious level of disrespect from the school board to the public, especially the members of the student body
No...this actually happened Collin at Wednesday night's meeting. It was quickly reprimanded by an adult but it was said nonetheless at a board member.
ReplyDeleteCollin -
ReplyDeleteWould you elaborate on the serious disrespect you observed demonstrated by the school board during April 13th meeting? I don't agree and would like to understand what you mean.
Collin,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate how civil the Thursday action was, there were a dozen & half or so preschoolers standing outside and I just can't imagine how I would have felt if Wed's comments were the same.
Seth is correct, it was stated and corrected by an adult present. I don't know if that was a faculty member or a parent. But standing beside me was our State Representative, Jenna Roberts, two year old daughter. That same representative was explaining the layers of law that is involved in the situation to a group of students.
It happened, unfortunatley.
...stated by a student, corrected by an adult...
ReplyDeleteCollin,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't there to observe the "serious level of disrespect from the school board to... members of the student body". However, in my personal view the SB was very respectful and tolerant by allowing all of those students to come in and take up SB time for nearly an hour and a half.
The fact is that the SB is elected by the voters, not by the students. Therefore, I question whether the SB should have granted the students this time.
I'm not saying that the students don't have a right to free speech. I am saying that since they aren't voters within ORCSD, they don't have a "right" to speak at an ORCSD SB meeting; if they attend it should be as guests or observers. If their concerns are legitimate and valid (as they may be) then the appropriate process is for the students to convince their parents/guardians (who *are* voters within the district) to come and speak on their behalf.
We wouldn't allow 3rd graders to come speak to the board. Neither would we allow voters of Dover, Newmarket or Portsmouth. This may seem unfair to current ORHS students, but it is the law of the land - until you are 18 you don't have a voice of your own.
I'd like to share this speech by a student leader prior to Thursday's peaceful demonstration.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM_EDwQ42tc
This is an example of how a protest should be done in our democracy and I'm *extremely* impressed with the foresight and maturity of our students shown here.
While I disagree with the speaker's description that students at Wednesday's demonstration were "completely civil" and "completely respectable", I do respect his right to express his opinion. Should the students choose to assemble again on the 27th, I sincerely hope this is how they will rally together to engage in productive, peaceful, and respectful expression of their views.
I have not commented on the decision of the board not to hire a principal because I am not familiar with the details. However, I have a very hard time with the sentiment that the students have no voice. I feel that the job of the school board is to protect the rights of the students within the school because most of them can't vote. The students are the most directly affected by these decisions, the board should value their opinion equally to those of the teachers, administrators and taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteThe school board should work the the staff and administration to come up with the best decision (on any matter, not just principal) in the best interests of the students.
Students should ABSOLUTELY have a voice. If not, why is there a student representative on the school board, and why are there students on various committees for the school? (Hopefully nobody uses that comment to eliminate the students from these positions.)
I am not saying the board, or any member of the staff should simply bend to the will of students, but they should definitely listen and respect the students enough to hear them out and give their thoughts consideration.
I hope the people making these comments are not parents. I thought we had come further as a society than to still believe that "children are to be seen and not heard."
I have tried to be respectful of differing view points, but that is a shameful sentiment. It flies in the face of democracy and basic integrity.
What is the point of a school board, a teacher, a school administrator? To do his or her best to protect and educate our youth.
What lesson does this, "Sit down and shut up!" mentality teach our children? That they should not even bother trying to advocate for themselves. But then, that seems to be what some of these comments are attempting to do.
Brian, thank you so much for posting that, and for your even-handed, intelligent commentary on these issues.
ReplyDeleteJust a quick response to Chris Ann's comments referring to me this morning. I don't believe that you would find many (if any) teachers who claim sole responsibility for a child's successes or failures. You are absolutely right that it takes a combined effort of parents and teachers.
ReplyDeleteThat said, parents and teachers should all have been proud of these students pride, knowledge and civic awareness. Parents certainly deserve much of the credit for the actions of these students. I don't think most of the students would have participated if they feared issues with their parents.
I think Brian made a good point that the school should address the fact that students left the grounds. I think it would be logistically difficult to expect them to send truancy slips individually to each of the 500 students. Maybe a letter to all parents, sort of a truancy form letter.
But yes, you are absoultely right that parents, and educators deserve some credit for the intelligence and civic mindedness of these students. Above all though, it is the students themselves who made the educated decision to try and make their voices heard. For their sakes, hopefully the voice was heard.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete